Discussion:
The DEMANDS of MEN, a monthly posting
(too old to reply)
Bob
2003-09-02 16:38:40 UTC
Permalink
A PARTIAL LIST OF DEMANDS BY MEN

The following demands of men have been collected from soc.men and are
reposted at monthly intervals.

Demands 43 and 44 were added this month from suggestions on soc.men
regarding discriminatory practices at colleges and universities.
Subsequent demands were renumbered accordingly.

Comments, additions and suggestions are always welcome.
Bob



Protecting the rights of BOYS

1. Provide DNA testing of every child at birth before a man's name as
the father goes onto the certificate of birth. Every child has a right
to know his or her parentage. Every man has a right to know his child.

2. Stop the sexual torture and mutilation of baby boys, Male Genital
Mutilation, (MGM). Currently over 1,000,000 baby boys are sexually
tortured and maimed in the US each year. Boys deserve equal justice
under the law. Men have an unalienable right to our whole body. We
demand criminal prosecution of sexual child abusers who mutilate little
children's sex organs.

3. Summarily dismiss justice system officials who refuse to prosecute
child abusers based on the sex of the child being abused. Sexually
torturing, maiming, or otherwise abusing a boy is equally bad as abusing
a girl, and we demand equal protection for boys under the law.
Discrimination against boys by public officials, ignoring the abuse of
boys, or failure to prosecute criminal offenses against boys constitutes
malfeasance of office and dereliction of duty. Abusing a boy does not
excuse violence against a child.

4. End current systematic discrimination against boys in public school
enrollment, discipline, and advancement.

5. Make schools safe for male children's natural rambunctiousness.
Provide class and educational situations that allow movement, exercise,
excitement and other natural boyish behavior. End discriminatory
punishment of boys in schools for boyish behavior. End all
discriminatory corporal punishment of boys.

6. Provide boys with active games and not passive TV watching, etc., in
preschool, in public schools, and after school.

7. End the massive drugging of boys who won't sit still in long boring
female structured classes. End the "Ritalin kid" drugging and
destruction of a currently estimated 35% of normal boys. Being an
active boy does not make a child psychotic, disturbed or "hyperactive."

8. Provide equal number of male teachers in schools for role models and
male guidance. Restructure educational recruiting practices and
prejudicial accusations of men who teach to encourage more men to be
teachers of our children.

9. Establish apprenticeship and mentor programs for young men for whom
trades are more appropriate than college. The current college
preparation school curriculum is not appropriate for many boys, and
amounts to a prison for many young men.

10. Make public education through the 12th grade available to all who
want to be educated regardless of their age. School dropouts who come
back and 10th graders who only read at 6th grade level deserve to be
enrolled in 6th grade level reading classes regardless of their age or
social status.

11. The basic human rights of children include their right of access to
both of their parents. All divorce decrees must consider the child's
rights as a primary concern. The child's interest can not be heard in
"family" court or any other court when the child is not represented by
adequate legal counsel. A court decision for custody by either parent
violates the child's inalienable human right to the other parent.

12. Recognize and enforce a child's fundamental human right to his or
her father. The father is the most beneficial parent in a child's life
after age 7. Depriving any child of his father is hurtful to the child.
Deliberately depriving a child of his father needs to be legally
recognized and prosecuted as criminal child abuse.


Protecting the rights of FATHERS


13. End prosecution of fathers for kidnapping of minor children. Fathers
have a fundamental human right to their child. It is not possible to
kidnap one's own child. Pardon and release all men previously convicted
of this faux crime.

14. End government interference with fathers who live other countries
and stop government support of the international smuggling of children
to take them away from their fathers. Fathers have a fundamental right
to live in their own country and to raise their children according to
the customs and religion of their homeland.

15. Recognize that a man's responsibility to his child is to support a
child by providing food at his dinner table, a place to sleep in his
home, clothing, education, and generally for the child's needs. Fathers
take responsibility for the child. No man ought to be required by
divorce or custody law to do more than to support his child.

16. End the social slavery of men masquerading as the failed feminist
social experiment called "absentee child support." It is a form of
slavery of men not related to supporting children. Sending money to pay
a woman for breaking up a family is not supporting a child.

17. End debtor's prisons and other punitive measures against men for not
supporting women.

18. Recognize women's full co-equal right and responsibility for the
support of themselves and their children. If a child is not being
supported the mother is fully as responsible as the man.

19. Adopt laws that recognize and protect men's equal rights to family
planning and all other decisions affecting our future children,
including decisions about abortion, abandonment and adoption of our
children.

20. Provide constructive and effective Rites of Passage for men. Honor
and bless young men coming into manhood. Acknowledge and appreciate
older men as they become elders, sages, mentors or wise men.

21. Fully fund research into birth control pills and other options for
men. Recognize the co-equal needs of men for family planning options.


Protecting the rights of MEN in health care.


22. Ensure that health insurance charges for men are proportional to the
health benefits received by men (who now pay most of medical costs but
who now receive only about 25% of medical treatment.)

23. Ensure that mental health services appropriate for men are widely
available. Men now receive only about 5% of all mental health service,
none of which is designed for men. The lack of availability of
appropriate mental health service greatly contributes to the staggering
loss of men's lives by suicide.

24. Eliminate discrimination by government, courts, and other agencies
against men who receive emotional or mental health treatment.

25. Address the huge loss of life of young men by suicide by providing
appropriate psychological research, counseling, self esteem enhancement,
improvement of life options, and other programs.


Protect the rights of HUSBANDS and families.


26. Provide equally funded domestic violence (DV) shelters and services
for battered men, and ensure that men are no more likely to be accused
and arrested for DV than women.

27. Provide shelters and programs to protect abused boys funded and
staffed proportionally to the significantly greater number of boys
currently subjected to abuse in the female headed single parent households.

28. End sexist propaganda about DV. All DV awareness programs must show
as many male victims as female victims, and as many female batterers ad
male batterers.

29. End the "child protection" services that assume men to be villains
if anyone suspects child abuse. A home with a father is statistically
the safest place for a child.

30. Stop the actions of so called Child Protective Services when they
attack fathers and separate families without compelling interest such as
criminal conviction for child abuse. End punitive administrative
decisions against men for administering discipline to unruly children.
A father's guidance is almost always better for the children than the
badly misandrist decisions now being rendered by badly misandrist CPS
officials.

31. End the many financial incentives that reward woman for breaking up
families and divorcing husbands. End unearned claims on the husband's
property. Stop alimony, child support, and other forms of indentured
servitude of men. Stop government programs that benefit and pay
divorced women with children. Make all government programs for children
equally available to fathers with children. End tax penalties for
marriage and government payments for divorce.

32. Stop emotionally rewarding women who destroy families. Establish
that a wife who leaves her husband has no right to break up the family
and take the children from their home. Require that the parent who
leaves a family or breaks it up by filing for divorce must be legally
presumed to leave behind the family home and the children.

33. Fully investigate wives and mothers whose husband or child dies of
unknown causes such as heart failure, chronic illness, SIDS, or other
symptoms which could mask poison or suffocation. Routinely require
autopsies that screen for common and uncommon poisons or drug overdoses.
Dead men and boys deserve equal protection under the law.


Protect rights of MEN in normal male sexual behavior.


34. End the criminalization of normal male sexual behavior. Repeal all
laws making male sexuality, exposure, penetration, etc., into a criminal
act unless there is demonstrable physical harm to a victim. Release and
pardon all men who have been arrested for "statutory rape," "date rape,"
"spousal rape," "pornography," "soliciting a prostitute," and other
weasel worded versions thereof. A woman's hurt feelings does not turn a
man into a criminal.

35. Repeal laws prohibiting men from obtaining commercial sexual
services from women who choose of their own free will to work in the sex
industry. Such prohibitive laws serve to sexually control men by
limiting men's access to sex and preventing open competition with wives'
monopoly. Promulgate OSHA guidelines for the health and safety of sex
workers.


Protect the Rights of MEN in the government.


36. Repeal laws prohibiting men from obtaining recreational drugs and
other "controlled substances." These laws create crime for the purpose
of fighting it. They make millions of men into criminals and breed
widespread disrespect for law and order. The prohibition of drugs
supports and makes possible massive crime statistics and is responsible
for fully half of all crime in the US. Pardon and release all men
currently imprisoned for "drug related" crimes.

37. Pass an Equal Rights Amendment that guarantees equal rights for men
in all government laws and programs.

38. Require all government agencies, which now have special departments
for women to also have a similar and equally funded department for men.


Protect the rights of MEN to equal educational opportunity.


39. Equally enforce Title IX of the Civil Rights Act wherever men are
discriminated against in education. End the half-century of flagrant
discrimination against men by the Department of Education.

40. Require all tax paid schools, colleges and universities that have
departments called "women's studies," "gender studies" or similar
euphemisms to also equally fund, staff, and support departments of
"Men's Studies." Require that English, Philosophy, and other college
departments which research, publish or teach "Feminist Theory" or
"Gender Theory" also equally fund, research, teach, and publish
"Masculinist Theory."

41. Limit "women studies" and "gender studies" classes at such tax
funded schools, colleges and universities to no more than the number of
classes and sections offered on "men's studies".

42. Require tax-funded libraries, schools, colleges and universities to
purchase a number of books on men and men's issues equal to those they
purchase on women and women's issues.

43. Eliminate speech codes and "harassment" codes currently used to
oppress, subjugate, and silence men, students and professors, on college
campuses. Ensure that the First Amendment rights to freedom of speech
are not abridged.

44. Eliminate discriminatory college and university programs such as
"multicultural centers," "women's centers" and others that do not
include men, white men, or straight men as equal recipients of
government funded programs. Eliminate ongoing "orientation" programs
aimed at forcing college students and employees to adopt "diversity"
beliefs and thoughts.


Protect the rights of MEN at work.


45. End a half-century of flagrant discrimination against men by the
DOL-EEOC and require this agency to show that they support the rights of
men, including white men, at work with equal funding and effort.

46. End anti-men discrimination and anti-white men discrimination under
so called "Affirmative Action" laws.

47. End the hostile work environments for men created by so-called
"sexual harassment" laws. Acknowledge the fundamental rights of free
speech and social contacts among adults in work as well as other social
situations.

48. Initiate large efforts to reduce the disproportionate number of men
killed at work, which now are over 90% of all work-related deaths.
Ensure that women also work at the "at-risk" jobs by requiring employers
to reassign or rotate workers between safe and more hazardous, harder,
or more dirty jobs. Any company or govt. agency reporting to OSHA with
a majority of one sex working at normally more risky occupations or
reporting occupational injuries mostly to men should pay very large
fines to its male workers for sexual discrimination against men.


Protect the rights of MEN in the media.


49. Balance women and men as murder victims, body count, and villains in
movies and TV. Current badly disproportional display of men in negative
media roles teaches prejudice against men.

50. Balance reporting of crime to eliminate the current over reporting
of crimes committed by men and under reporting of crimes committed by women.

51. Allow discrimination lawsuits and punitive settlements for biased
media coverage. Numerical unbalance by the media is de facto evidence
of discrimination sufficient to prove discrimination and justify
punitive class action damage awards.


Protect the rights of MEN to fair and equal justice under the law.


52. Restore equal justice. The current discrepancy in prison population
is due almost entirely to unfair laws and prosecution that criminalize
men and allow women to be free. The real crime of most men in prison is
merely being men. Justice tried before a biased court system is not
justice at all. No man can get a fair trial in today's biased system.
End prosecution of any man for any crime until fair and impartial
justice is restored. It is not a crime to be born male.

53. Reform the police and injustice system to end discrimination against
men in police interrogation, citation, arrests, prosecution, plea
bargaining, conviction, sentencing, prison time, prison conditions and
parole. No man receives a fair trial under today's badly misandrist
system. Stop all arrest and prosecution of men under a badly unfair and
prejudice system. Pardon and release all men who have been convicted or
imprisoned by the sexually biased injustice system.

54. End prosecution entirely for those crimes that are enforced
primarily against men, and repeal unfair laws that apply or are applied
to men only or primarily.

55. Equally prosecution and sentence both the women and the men where a
woman and man perpetrated the crime as partners. End systematic plea
bargaining and witness exclusion now used to exempt women who are
partners in crime.

56. End special sexist legal defenses that now apply to women but not to
men. Examples include the fictitious "battered wife" defense that
excuses the murder of men.

57. End so called "rape shield" laws that take away the fundamental and
constitutional right of American citizens to confront and question
witnesses against them in a court of law.

58. End the so-called "sexual offender" reporting lists, which serve
primarily as hate propaganda against men. They constitute cruel and
unusual punishment and have no demonstrated value in deterring any
future crime. Sex crimes have lower recidivism rates than other crimes.
These lists and the life long publication of the names of men are
unmitigated misandry.

59. End over prosecution and over punishment of men for minor offenses.
Hate motivated accusations of crime made against men with no or minimal
showing of physical injury to personas or property shall be no more than
misdemeanors. A woman's hurt feelings do not justify the prosecution of
a man for a major crime.

60. End current oppression of men by taking away a man's rights as a
citizen when a woman maliciously accuses him of DV, child abuse or for
other sham charges. Restore the civil rights of men previously accused
or convicted in biased courts and of misandrist crimes such as those
listed herein. A woman's misandry does not repeal a man's civil and
constitutional rights.

61. Recognize that falsely accusing a man of crime is as much of an
offense as the crime for which the man is falsely accused. Sentence
anyone making a false accusation against a man in a court of law, and
who fails to prove their accusation, to the penalty that the accused
would have received had he been found guilty of the accusation. Include
accusing witnesses and state paid attorneys. A verdict of "not guilty"
for the accused is a final "guilty" verdict of "false accusation" for
the accuser.

62. End prosecution of men for police accusations of minor infractions
of law unless the accuser shows injury or endangerment to a particular
person. For example, minor speeding on a vacant highway that endangers
nobody is not a crime and should not be prosecuted. If there is no
injury there is no crime, and no man ought to be punished. A man
talking in the woods with no woman around is not wrong.

63. End the long-standing police practice of letting women go with a
warning or ignoring their violations or crimes entirely while arresting
or citing men for the same violations. Driving, walking, or living while
male is not a crime.

64. Require periodic published reports giving statistics of actions
taken against men compared with police, or criminal prosecutor or court
actions taken against women. Dismiss police reports, interrogation,
citations and arrests of men in excess of those for women during any
reporting period.

65. Summarily dismiss Police Chiefs, Police Commissioners, Judges,
Prosecuting Attorneys and other elected and appointed government
officials for malfeasance of duty if annual report statistics show a
gender unbalance of arrests greater than 10%.


Protecting the rights of MEN in life


66. Respect men's privacy and feelings in dressing rooms, locker rooms,
and toilet areas where such are provided to women in similar
circumstances. Women's choice of restrictive or inconvenient clothing is
not an excuse to minimize men's facilities or to allow women to violate
men's privacy.

67. Provide adequate plumbing facilities for men in homes. Revise
architectural standards and building codes to include men's plumbing
needs. Today's standard residential bathtubs, for example, are not large
enough to be used by most men. No urinal for men is currently provided
in most homes.

68. End laws criminalizing men for public urination on roadsides and
other suitable places. Normal male body functions are neither obscene
nor offensive.

69. End unequal laws currently allowing female reporters in men's sports
team locker rooms but not male reporters in women's sports team locker
rooms.

70. End unequal laws, codes and architectural standards requiring more
plentiful and better-furnished toilet rooms for women than men in public
buildings. Provide public facilities for men equal to those provided for
women.

71. Initiate programs and research to improve men's health care, lower
stress, reduce hazards, end violence, and all other ways that men are
culturally mistreated until men regain equal longevity. The current
imbalance in life expectancy of men is a direct reflection of the sum of
all the ways that the culture discriminates against men.

72. Lower men's currently disproportional share of Social Security taxes
to be proportional with the expected benefits that men receive. Men now
pay 80% of social security taxes and receive 20% of benefits.

73. Lower men's currently disproportional share of life insurance,
health insurance, and car insurance charges. Insurance rates must be
equalized to reflect fairly on the risks involved for each gender. Men
now pay higher premiums for many kinds of insurance disproportionately
to the insurance risks and costs involved.

74. Require equal obligation for military service. Women must be
equally subject to the draft and military service, including combat,
short dehumanizing haircuts, etc. The UCMJ and other regulations must
be revised to eliminate rules that unfairly punish men for normal
sexuality among male and female soldiers and sailors. Rules must be
enacted and revised to eliminate current women's special rights to avoid
combat or service by getting pregnant when military medical treatment
can prevent pregnancy. Women's combat units can be created with
equipment and tactics designed for women's size and strength to prevent
women from becoming dependent within men's units.

75. Encourage work or employment situations that rejoin men with our
families. Since the beginning of the industrial revolution men have been
taken from our homes, farms and shops to work in factories apart from
our families. This is an unnatural state that is inherently harmful to
most men who lose contact with our children, and harmful to our children
who are deprived of the company, guidance and love of their father. We
demand that the society recognize and mitigate the grievous harm that
industrialization has done to men and children.

76. End sexist law that currently prohibits men-only gyms, stores,
clubs, etc., but permits women-only places of those kinds. Men must be
permitted free association with other men in clubs, lodges, teams, and
all social and fraternal venues. We demand freedoms for men to choose
our friends and associates.
Deep Fish out of Korea
2003-09-04 13:15:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob
A PARTIAL LIST OF DEMANDS BY MEN
The following demands of men have been collected from soc.men and are
reposted at monthly intervals.
Demands 43 and 44 were added this month from suggestions on soc.men
regarding discriminatory practices at colleges and universities.
Subsequent demands were renumbered accordingly.
Comments, additions and suggestions are always welcome.
Bob
Protecting the rights of BOYS
1. Provide DNA testing of every child at birth before a man's name as
the father goes onto the certificate of birth. Every child has a
right to know his or her parentage. Every man has a right to know his
child.
A real man would never dream of asking. A real Dad wouldn't care.
Post by Bob
2. Stop the sexual torture and mutilation of baby boys, Male Genital
Mutilation, (MGM). Currently over 1,000,000 baby boys are sexually
tortured and maimed in the US each year. Boys deserve equal justice
under the law. Men have an unalienable right to our whole body. We
demand criminal prosecution of sexual child abusers who mutilate
little children's sex organs.
Gee, could you be alittle more over the top? Mohel Cohen in maximum
security.
Post by Bob
3. Summarily dismiss justice system officials who refuse to prosecute
child abusers based on the sex of the child being abused. Sexually
torturing, maiming, or otherwise abusing a boy is equally bad as
abusing a girl, and we demand equal protection for boys under the law.
Discrimination against boys by public officials, ignoring the abuse of
boys, or failure to prosecute criminal offenses against boys
constitutes malfeasance of office and dereliction of duty. Abusing a
boy does not excuse violence against a child.
No argument here. Point of clarification though - just who is it that is
abusing boys, hmmm?
Post by Bob
4. End current systematic discrimination against boys in public school
enrollment, discipline, and advancement.
5. Make schools safe for male children's natural rambunctiousness.
Provide class and educational situations that allow movement,
exercise, excitement and other natural boyish behavior.
No argument with this one, but what would you include as "natural boyish
behaviour"? And given that the process of enculturation and socialisation
that is inherent in schooling is predicated on restricting and streaming
"natural" behaviour, where do you draw the line? Bullying and physical
assault can arguably be defined as "natural".
Post by Bob
End
discriminatory punishment of boys in schools for boyish behavior. End
all discriminatory corporal punishment of boys.
No corporal punishment is presently condoned in any school system I've seen.
What century are you talking about?
Post by Bob
6. Provide boys with active games and not passive TV watching, etc.,
in preschool, in public schools, and after school.
Gee, wouldn't that be predominantly the responsibility of the PARENTS?
Post by Bob
7. End the massive drugging of boys who won't sit still in long boring
female structured classes. End the "Ritalin kid" drugging and
destruction of a currently estimated 35% of normal boys. Being an
active boy does not make a child psychotic, disturbed or
"hyperactive."
Being an untrained child does. however, make a child practically
unteachable. I've had to teach students (boys and girls) who have been
trained for their whole lives to question and resist EVERY instruction, and
act out for instant gratification of every need. Teaching and learning
cannot proceed when the student has been so trained that she/he cannot sit
still long enough to complete tasks, listen to basic instructions, or pay
attention and cooperate with th e process. When you have 30 kids in a class
and you spend 30-40% of class time getting the same 4 to 5 students to
follow basic expectations, then you have all 30 kids being shortchanged.

I agree that ritalin is massively overprescribed... Classes are crowded and
teachers are overworked. Given adequate resources and parental commitment
there is no reason why these problems can't be addressed without recourse to
drugs.
Post by Bob
8. Provide equal number of male teachers in schools for role models
and male guidance. Restructure educational recruiting practices and
prejudicial accusations of men who teach to encourage more men to be
teachers of our children.
Agreed. The problem is that male teachers 1) Traditionally have gone for
jobs in secondary education where the money is better 2) Are more actively
recruited for advancement to Principalship or Admin 3) Do not apply for
programs in primary or junior education.

At the school I where I taught last year there were two full time male
teachers out of a full time staff of 13. The Grade 1/2 teacher and the Grade
5 teacher. The Grade 1/2 teacher is now on sabbatical, the Grade 5 teacher
has moved up to Junior High. Both teachers were actively recruited. Neither
is being replaced by a male teacher. Why? Because there are no male teachers
applying.
Post by Bob
9. Establish apprenticeship and mentor programs for young men for whom
trades are more appropriate than college. The current college
preparation school curriculum is not appropriate for many boys, and
amounts to a prison for many young men.
Ditto for skilled women. The NA insistence on degrees and University
education as signs of "success" cripples our education system. A colleague
in Germany put it this way : "You spend thousands upon thousands of dollars
to produce Engineers and Researchers who will never practice in their field
because you have too many, yet high paying jobs as technicians and
machinists go begging."
Post by Bob
10. Make public education through the 12th grade available to all who
want to be educated regardless of their age. School dropouts who
come back and 10th graders who only read at 6th grade level deserve to
be enrolled in 6th grade level reading classes regardless of their age
or social status.
Where do you live? Adult education programs are extant here.


DFooK
Bob
2003-09-04 13:30:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Deep Fish out of Korea
Post by Bob
A PARTIAL LIST OF DEMANDS BY MEN
The following demands of men have been collected from soc.men and are
reposted at monthly intervals.
Demands 43 and 44 were added this month from suggestions on soc.men
regarding discriminatory practices at colleges and universities.
Subsequent demands were renumbered accordingly.
Comments, additions and suggestions are always welcome.
Bob
Protecting the rights of BOYS
1. Provide DNA testing of every child at birth before a man's name as
the father goes onto the certificate of birth. Every child has a
right to know his or her parentage. Every man has a right to know his
child.
A real man would never dream of asking. A real Dad wouldn't care.
ROFLMAO!!! A real man would ask first. Real men care about OUR
children. 25-30% of "monogamous" women whelp bastards.
Post by Deep Fish out of Korea
Post by Bob
2. Stop the sexual torture and mutilation of baby boys, Male Genital
Mutilation, (MGM). Currently over 1,000,000 baby boys are sexually
tortured and maimed in the US each year. Boys deserve equal justice
under the law. Men have an unalienable right to our whole body. We
demand criminal prosecution of sexual child abusers who mutilate
little children's sex organs.
Gee, could you be alittle more over the top? Mohel Cohen in maximum
security.
Multiple violent sexual child abusers belong there.
Post by Deep Fish out of Korea
Post by Bob
3. Summarily dismiss justice system officials who refuse to prosecute
child abusers based on the sex of the child being abused. Sexually
torturing, maiming, or otherwise abusing a boy is equally bad as
abusing a girl, and we demand equal protection for boys under the law.
Discrimination against boys by public officials, ignoring the abuse of
boys, or failure to prosecute criminal offenses against boys
constitutes malfeasance of office and dereliction of duty. Abusing a
boy does not excuse violence against a child.
No argument here. Point of clarification though - just who is it that is
abusing boys, hmmm?
Boys receive twice as much child abuse as girls, including sexual abuse.
And that does not count MGM which outnumbers all other violent crimes
against children and all other violent sexual crime combined.
Post by Deep Fish out of Korea
Post by Bob
4. End current systematic discrimination against boys in public school
enrollment, discipline, and advancement.
5. Make schools safe for male children's natural rambunctiousness.
Provide class and educational situations that allow movement,
exercise, excitement and other natural boyish behavior.
No argument with this one, but what would you include as "natural boyish
behaviour"? And given that the process of enculturation and socialisation
that is inherent in schooling is predicated on restricting and streaming
"natural" behaviour, where do you draw the line? Bullying and physical
assault can arguably be defined as "natural".
Ritalin is not "natural." Nor are large wooden paddles.
Post by Deep Fish out of Korea
Post by Bob
End
discriminatory punishment of boys in schools for boyish behavior. End
all discriminatory corporal punishment of boys.
No corporal punishment is presently condoned in any school system I've seen.
What century are you talking about?
Condoned or not, many boys (but not girls) still get beaten in school.
Post by Deep Fish out of Korea
Post by Bob
6. Provide boys with active games and not passive TV watching, etc.,
in preschool, in public schools, and after school.
Gee, wouldn't that be predominantly the responsibility of the PARENTS?
Yep. And others.
Post by Deep Fish out of Korea
Post by Bob
7. End the massive drugging of boys who won't sit still in long boring
female structured classes. End the "Ritalin kid" drugging and
destruction of a currently estimated 35% of normal boys. Being an
active boy does not make a child psychotic, disturbed or
"hyperactive."
Being an untrained child does. however, make a child practically
unteachable. I've had to teach students (boys and girls) who have been
trained for their whole lives to question and resist EVERY instruction, and
act out for instant gratification of every need. Teaching and learning
cannot proceed when the student has been so trained that she/he cannot sit
still long enough to complete tasks, listen to basic instructions, or pay
attention and cooperate with th e process. When you have 30 kids in a class
and you spend 30-40% of class time getting the same 4 to 5 students to
follow basic expectations, then you have all 30 kids being shortchanged.
I agree that ritalin is massively overprescribed... Classes are crowded and
teachers are overworked. Given adequate resources and parental commitment
there is no reason why these problems can't be addressed without recourse to
drugs.
Yep.
Post by Deep Fish out of Korea
Post by Bob
8. Provide equal number of male teachers in schools for role models
and male guidance. Restructure educational recruiting practices and
prejudicial accusations of men who teach to encourage more men to be
teachers of our children.
Agreed. The problem is that male teachers 1) Traditionally have gone for
jobs in secondary education where the money is better
That's not an excuse for poor recruitment and rewards.
Post by Deep Fish out of Korea
2) Are more actively
recruited for advancement to Principalship or Admin
So more active recruiting is needed for teaching jobs. DUH!
Post by Deep Fish out of Korea
3) Do not apply for
programs in primary or junior education.
If there were men as role models young men would apply for more of the
positions.
Post by Deep Fish out of Korea
At the school I where I taught last year there were two full time male
teachers out of a full time staff of 13. The Grade 1/2 teacher and the Grade
5 teacher. The Grade 1/2 teacher is now on sabbatical, the Grade 5 teacher
has moved up to Junior High. Both teachers were actively recruited. Neither
is being replaced by a male teacher. Why? Because there are no male teachers
applying.
Because they aren't recruiting men. There is no AA. It is not an excuse
to hurt all the boys in the school.
Post by Deep Fish out of Korea
Post by Bob
9. Establish apprenticeship and mentor programs for young men for whom
trades are more appropriate than college. The current college
preparation school curriculum is not appropriate for many boys, and
amounts to a prison for many young men.
Ditto for skilled women. The NA insistence on degrees and University
education as signs of "success" cripples our education system. A colleague
in Germany put it this way : "You spend thousands upon thousands of dollars
to produce Engineers and Researchers who will never practice in their field
because you have too many, yet high paying jobs as technicians and
machinists go begging."
Yep. High schools produce college prep graduates, but 75% will never go
to college.
Post by Deep Fish out of Korea
Post by Bob
10. Make public education through the 12th grade available to all who
want to be educated regardless of their age. School dropouts who
come back and 10th graders who only read at 6th grade level deserve to
be enrolled in 6th grade level reading classes regardless of their age
or social status.
Where do you live? Adult education programs are extant here.
DFooK
Where do you live. In most places a 16year old who reads at 4th grade
level can not receive education appropriate to her reading level.

Bob
Hanuman
2003-09-04 19:21:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Deep Fish out of Korea
Post by Bob
A PARTIAL LIST OF DEMANDS BY MEN
The following demands of men have been collected from soc.men and are
reposted at monthly intervals.
Demands 43 and 44 were added this month from suggestions on soc.men
regarding discriminatory practices at colleges and universities.
Subsequent demands were renumbered accordingly.
Comments, additions and suggestions are always welcome.
Bob
Protecting the rights of BOYS
1. Provide DNA testing of every child at birth before a man's name as
the father goes onto the certificate of birth. Every child has a
right to know his or her parentage. Every man has a right to know
his child.
A real man would never dream of asking. A real Dad wouldn't care.
Any unwed man with half a brain in his head would ask for a DNA test. For
me it would be simple...especially in a situation where I didn't want the
kid and she did. In that case, I'd demand the DNA test before signing any
birth certificates.

"A real Dad wouldn't care." That's the point though, isn't it? The "real"
(as in genetic) fathers of children don't care for or need a DNA test. It's
only the "unreal" (as in falsely accused) fathers of children that care for
or need a DNA test. ...But then the only way to separate those two camps is
with a DNA test.
Post by Deep Fish out of Korea
Post by Bob
2. Stop the sexual torture and mutilation of baby boys, Male Genital
Mutilation, (MGM). Currently over 1,000,000 baby boys are sexually
tortured and maimed in the US each year. Boys deserve equal justice
under the law. Men have an unalienable right to our whole body. We
demand criminal prosecution of sexual child abusers who mutilate
little children's sex organs.
Gee, could you be alittle more over the top? Mohel Cohen in maximum
security.
There's nothing over the top about it. This is precisely how female
cicumcision is treated. If there is to be equality under the law in the
United States (among other nations) then both female cicumcision and male
circumcision should be treated equally, and those who commit such acts
handled equally under the law.
Post by Deep Fish out of Korea
Post by Bob
3. Summarily dismiss justice system officials who refuse to prosecute
child abusers based on the sex of the child being abused. Sexually
torturing, maiming, or otherwise abusing a boy is equally bad as
abusing a girl, and we demand equal protection for boys under the
law. Discrimination against boys by public officials, ignoring the
abuse of boys, or failure to prosecute criminal offenses against boys
constitutes malfeasance of office and dereliction of duty. Abusing a
boy does not excuse violence against a child.
No argument here. Point of clarification though - just who is it that
is abusing boys, hmmm?
To answer your "point of clarification": The majority of child abuse is done
by mothers to their children.

The issue here isn't who the person committing the act is, the issue is that
when boys are abused they are "less protected" by our legal systems in the
USA than when girls are abused. Their abusers get lighter sentences,
regardless of their sex.

Hanuman
--
One nation, under surveillance, with urine tests and wire taps for all.
In the land of the fee and the home of the slave.
avenger
2003-09-05 11:15:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hanuman
Post by Deep Fish out of Korea
Post by Bob
A PARTIAL LIST OF DEMANDS BY MEN
The following demands of men have been collected from soc.men and are
reposted at monthly intervals.
Demands 43 and 44 were added this month from suggestions on soc.men
regarding discriminatory practices at colleges and universities.
Subsequent demands were renumbered accordingly.
Comments, additions and suggestions are always welcome.
Bob
Protecting the rights of BOYS
1. Provide DNA testing of every child at birth before a man's name as
the father goes onto the certificate of birth. Every child has a
right to know his or her parentage. Every man has a right to know
his child.
A real man would never dream of asking. A real Dad wouldn't care.
Any unwed man with half a brain in his head would ask for a DNA test. For
me it would be simple...especially in a situation where I didn't want the
kid and she did. In that case, I'd demand the DNA test before signing any
birth certificates.
"A real Dad wouldn't care." That's the point though, isn't it? The "real"
(as in genetic) fathers of children don't care for or need a DNA test.
It's
Post by Hanuman
only the "unreal" (as in falsely accused) fathers of children that care for
or need a DNA test. ...But then the only way to separate those two camps is
with a DNA test.
Post by Deep Fish out of Korea
Post by Bob
2. Stop the sexual torture and mutilation of baby boys, Male Genital
Mutilation, (MGM). Currently over 1,000,000 baby boys are sexually
tortured and maimed in the US each year. Boys deserve equal justice
under the law. Men have an unalienable right to our whole body. We
demand criminal prosecution of sexual child abusers who mutilate
little children's sex organs.
Gee, could you be alittle more over the top? Mohel Cohen in maximum
security.
We don't permit people to engage in certain forms of conduct on the grounds
that it's their "religion" do we? Not in the US at least.
Post by Hanuman
There's nothing over the top about it. This is precisely how female
cicumcision is treated. If there is to be equality under the law in the
United States (among other nations) then both female cicumcision and male
circumcision should be treated equally, and those who commit such acts
handled equally under the law.
Post by Deep Fish out of Korea
Post by Bob
3. Summarily dismiss justice system officials who refuse to prosecute
child abusers based on the sex of the child being abused. Sexually
torturing, maiming, or otherwise abusing a boy is equally bad as
abusing a girl, and we demand equal protection for boys under the
law. Discrimination against boys by public officials, ignoring the
abuse of boys, or failure to prosecute criminal offenses against boys
constitutes malfeasance of office and dereliction of duty. Abusing a
boy does not excuse violence against a child.
No argument here. Point of clarification though - just who is it that
is abusing boys, hmmm?
To answer your "point of clarification": The majority of child abuse is done
by mothers to their children.
The issue here isn't who the person committing the act is, the issue is that
when boys are abused they are "less protected" by our legal systems in the
USA than when girls are abused. Their abusers get lighter sentences,
regardless of their sex.
Hanuman
--
One nation, under surveillance, with urine tests and wire taps for all.
In the land of the fee and the home of the slave.
Xyzzy
2003-09-05 17:04:33 UTC
Permalink
"Hanuman" <***@monkey.com> wrote in message news:<IgM5b.355764$***@sccrnsc04>...

...
Post by Hanuman
Post by Deep Fish out of Korea
Post by Bob
2. Stop the sexual torture and mutilation of baby boys, Male Genital
Mutilation, (MGM). Currently over 1,000,000 baby boys are sexually
tortured and maimed in the US each year. Boys deserve equal justice
under the law. Men have an unalienable right to our whole body. We
demand criminal prosecution of sexual child abusers who mutilate
little children's sex organs.
Gee, could you be alittle more over the top? Mohel Cohen in maximum
security.
There's nothing over the top about it.
Ritualized penis surgery for babies is over the top.
Post by Hanuman
This is precisely how female
cicumcision is treated.
When making this point, you always have to point out that *any
surgical alteration whatsoever* of a baby girl's genitals is a felony.
FGM laws in the US are not limited to clitoridectomy--any alteration
is a felony.

You can't so much as trim her prepuce a bit--in male circ the prepuce
is removed entirely:
www.fgmnetwork.org/legisl/US/federal.html

...

L. James MacBride
2003-09-04 14:41:08 UTC
Permalink
Blah blah blah blah blah.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

BOR-ING BOR-ING BOR-ING BOR-ING


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